Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

This ain't no guide But I know what you mean

It's a moral guide

9:29 PM

a religion if you will.

Not a religion

You are a modern day Confucius. (edited)

A moral guide, an idealogy, I'll take that

Hey if Confucius gets away with calling his code a religion you can too!

9:30 PM

Yours also has pseudo-religious elements, such as moral absolutism

I don't even disagree entirely with the points, but the way it's phrased just irritates me

I'm genuinely tempted to write my own moral manifesto on tulpamancy. But I suspect it wouldn't be too long or different from what I just wrote given that ultimately morality should play second fiddle to mental health in all circumstances

Hi hi

hey

9:37 PM

james jgc

9:38 PM

what is your point now?

9:38 PM

sorry I haven't read the above

9:38 PM

especially that long wall of text

I am allowed to have a specific ideological standpoint on tulpamancy and to promote an ideological standpoint as a groundwork/foundation for a specific type of tulpa development that I find highly desirable

wether it is in alignment with the truth or no

9:39 PM

sure

9:39 PM

truth doesn't really matter

I hate the idea that truth doesn't matter

9:40 PM

I hate the idea that anything goes

!?

I mean i think it is likely that you are wrong

9:40 PM

albeit partly

But... This whole time you've been advocating lies.

9:40 PM

For a greater good.

and what ideological standpoint do you have?

The longer version is in a textwall, but I will post the bullet point image again

9:42 PM

Once again, many of your claims in the constitution are based on complete presumption or even factually incorrect statements about the nature of morality and psychology.

JGC

I hate the idea that anything goes

I prefer a lasseiz faire approach, not necessarily anything goes but not a one size fits all either

The short-form version of this image doesn't even work because it removes context

9:43 PM

These statements are brazen lies without their "justifications"

9:43 PM

Tulpas are objectively not always human or human-behaving in any meaningful way

first

Tulpas can be made instantly

9:43 PM

I've done it.

what are terms like humans and tulpamancy?

3 is, by itself, a redundancy....

and where is the proof?

These are ideals, not peer-reviewed metanalysis

9:44 PM

We maintain the following ideals of tulpamancy, which are provided here to increase public understanding of our position, provide an ideological basis from which we find inspiration and motivation in our goal of providing high-quality resources to the tulpamancy community, and which we hope may service as a starting point in ideology for the novice.

link to the start of all this for reference https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431591425872887828/922562440506536007

Following the knowledge that tulpas are always human, tulpas are natural, earthly, and quickly come to possess free will.

Quickly or slowly, which is it?

you guys are so split-minded about this stuff Someone says, "I have 30 instant tulpas and they're all from Evangelion" and it's "sure, and anyone who judges you for a second is a right bastard" I say "tulpas are human" and it's "where's the proof"

Then what are their basis? Ideals don't just spring up out of people's arseholes y'know? I could say anything is an ideal if that's the only criteria. An ideal, a moral judgement of any kind, exists for one purpose and one purpose only: To increase your cohesion with society - The ultimate good is selflessness to someone else or a group that is selfless. So this comes down to: Do you consider a tulpa and host to be two people or do you consider them one with a combined duty to be a good person in a society?

I got banned from discord lol

I actually think the former is a serious, dangerous, trap.

That's a good point Yuka The human essences are inborn to tulpas, while individual identity grows slowly

9:49 PM

It's like how a baby can feel pain before it knows its own name

9:50 PM

This is a guide to having a soul

9:50 PM

As a non-host entity (edited)

9:50 PM

lmao entitty

1

Okay now you definitely get the religion tag.

boooo

9:50 PM

metaphysical yes though

In the eastern sense of the word at least.

I don't know how to distill it any more than that

9:51 PM

"why is this different", is the question over and over

You went straight from Confucius to Taoism or Buddhism. (edited)

This is a guide for people who want a tulpa with a living and true soul, equal to their own

9:51 PM

Or not a guide but a guiding principles which, yeah a guide without instructions in it

I think it is better to state: tulpas are conscious insead of human. Now, are they really conscious? I think we have to use induction for this.

Before I continue, please in this context define soul for me.

ughhhhhhhhhhh do you

9:53 PM

do you wanna go to #metaphysics

discussion is fine too?

we're supposed to keep religion stuff to meta

w/e

I just want to know what specifically I'm arguing against experientially.

9:55 PM

Presuming you agree I particularly have a soul; I don't experience any real difference in complexity now between me and Rhys. Mika has grown past his I'm-An-Intrusive-Thought stage as well, though remains less present in our lives.

9:56 PM

But I need to know exactly what I'm contending.

That's a good point Yuka The human essences are inborn to tulpas, while individual identity grows slowly

@JGC - jump I wanted to say, you should know it can take a long time for some tulpas to reach vocality, or anything you might label free will (or a short time, or any medium amount of time). But now I have to ask what the heck you mean by human essence being inborn to tulpas

consciousness?

You're right. I've known tulpas who took six months, ten months, or years before vocality. Free will might be a bad term because it really does imply taking actions, such as vocalizing opinions or whatnot. By human essence, and by the word human, I really am not trying to hit on any great metaphysical concept. What I mean is that they are physical meaty human peoples functioning through a body. This is opposed to multiverse concepts, that tulpas drift or are transferred in through fictional universes, or tinkerbell concepts that tulpas are propelled by the host's belief, or further concepts that tulpas are demons, dreams, aliens, or even fictional identities like Sans the Skeleton Man or A Literal Anthropomorphic Wolf etc.

10:06 PM

You have to ask, immediately, from the beginning: what is this? What is this I am handling? Who is this I am working to create? A human. human life. Human standards.

10:06 PM

Just holding yourself to human standards, I believe, is a great deterrent to a lot of wackadoodle behavior.

ok, I made my own 10 commandments of tulpamancy

1. There are no tulpas but tulpas and they are tulpas. There is no tulpamancy community but the tulpamancy community and it is the tulpamancy community. And the PIPWADE community is also the tulpa community
2. Remember to pet you're tulpa
3. The propreantepenultimate goal of tulpamancy is to appropriate buddhism and theosophy
4. Tulpas are always mind demons
5. Walk ins will be accepted based on availability
6. Thou must not make a tulpa of an animal or fictional person, or else thine thoughtform will be deemed a daemon or soulbond, rather than a tulpa
7. All tulpamancers either have DID or schizophrenia or they are just faking it
8. you do not talk about tulpamancy
9. you do not talk about tulpamancy
10. A tulpamancer is prohibited from believing what they read

1

lol

5. Walk ins will be accepted based on availability in an infinite hotel

10:07 PM

no no

10:08 PM

I shall refrain

10:08 PM

from shitposting

JGC

Just holding yourself to human standards, I believe, is a great deterrent to a lot of wackadoodle behavior.

I agree but only on a systemic context. For instance what if you want something inhuman in some major way, like for instance you want a spiritual being who is a representative of cosmic truth or unconscious and who can tell you things about yourself that are insightful. What if you want a spirit guide tupper? In this case I would expect such a tupper to be inhuman or not be particularly normal, but also capable of being wise and acting rationally. The key here is not whether they are based in humanoid logic, but whether you trust their reason. (edited)

This is opposed to multiverse concepts, that tulpas drift or are transferred in through fictional universes, or tinkerbell concepts that tulpas are propelled by the host's belief, or further concepts that tulpas are demons, dreams, aliens, or even fictional identities like Sans the Skeleton Man or A Literal Anthropomorphic Wolf etc.

I don't see much of this in the tulpa community. People might take on those forms but they don't usually believe they are literally those things. There's no end to fringe cases, though. It's the wider plural community where people commonly claim to be from other universes and such, and sometimes they admit it's a coping mechanism but

Yes further to that. We are aware that the anthropmorphic forms we imagine them having are just suggestions and visualizations. They're useful in the sense that if you do buy into them you can use them to cause bleed, and there's the interesting proposition that given how empathy works they might actually be experiencing a complex existence that we are simply dissociated from. Ultimately though, this flesh is their flesh. Their forms are no more their bodies than an imaginary body I dream up for myself is mine.

Know that the LORD(HOST) is God. It is he who made us, and we are his ; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture. (edited)

10:28 PM

tinkerbell concept sounds pretty legit thonk

Deleted User

Know that the LORD(HOST) is God. It is he who made us, and we are his ; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture. (edited)

Wait a god damn minute. Yahweh is addressed as the Lord of Hosts inna'bible ain't he? It's all starting to make sense...

3

Your tulpas will be what you want them to be. +++ Even though I don't feel too confident on my stance, in general allowing free will to occur will lead to free will to form. A tulpa isn't set in stone either, in general a change in beliefs will change what your tulpa is capable of. I haven't thought through all of the weird exceptions like waifu tulpas and story characters turned tulpas. +++ I have a different stance on walk-ins than I used to and I think the approach walk-ins should be ignored/destroyed doesn't work for everyone. For those that have lots of walk-ins, some benifit from being told that they can ignore them but a lot of people don't. It hit a point where systems with double digit populations just felt shame for their situation and they would all be miserable. Instead, I recently realized that letting people have walk-ins, enjoy their presence, and let them leave (permanently or temporarily) led to the system being happier and healthier, keeping the population down to a sustainable amount at any given time. While I haven't embraced being 100% flexible on this, trying to control the system population at all could lead to more pain than help for a system. I think the biggest mistake I made was projecting what works for my system onto others. (edited)

I think in our case it's more a philosophical question of, did my girls turn out how they did because they were somehow predisposed to turn out that way, or because I had certain expectations for them that influenced their development. I don't think any one system has all the answers to these questions though

I agree, it's basically nurture vs. nature but both sides are on steroids- headmates literally share the same brain and therefore share the same wiring/instincts to whatever degree, and headmates can heavily influence their headmates through their thoughts and actions. It makes me wonder if there's more to the argument, like a weird third variable. I want to say both situations are not identical because one is far more intimate than the other.

I think in our case it's more a philosophical question of, did my girls turn out how they did because they were somehow predisposed to turn out that way, or because I had certain expectations for them that influenced their development. I don't think any one system has all the answers to these questions though

I'm actually opposed to this way of viewing it, it's a false dichotomy. The answer to your question here is just "yes". Because despite the expectations you have definitely influencing their development in ways we clearly observe in tulpas it's important to remember that yes, your brain and you do also have predisposition and you are equally influenced by stuff. It's not nature vs nurture, it's better considered a chicken and egg situation with the influence of human culture and human intelligence. I would point out though I don't actually think tulpas completely lack free will or anything like that. My position should be clarified more specifically as "tulpas have blinkers on regarding aspects of their personality". This statement is true for hosts too, as this is what bias is. If they become aware of these things and decide that their behaviour is negative they can absolutely challenge these parts of their personality, but in most cases why would they if they're not causing actual, real distress? I think we simply notice these influences more with tulpas because it's easier to track the reasons they formed this way. Unlike with us we can say any number of things influenced our early growth and our memories are not clear enough to track all of them. Parents, random pieces of media, random events, place and the people around you. All kinds of stuff. But with a tulpa the expectations the host is standing by, watching, and has a vested interest in understanding - In addition to probably accounting for like 80% of all influence the tulpa experiences, and practically all of the early influence which occurs when they're most suggestible.

when my host is feeling fine, hes doing his usual stuff like cooking, laundry or drawing

6:05 AM

BUT

6:09 AM

when something bad happens or he's simply feeling down for some reason, instead of our usual tulpa-talking he tends to ask me if i can hug him or have some sexy time in wonderland ;_;

6:10 AM

i mean - we still are talking with each other about normal, not-dirty stuff

6:11 AM

but while hes not feeling down we simply avoid such things

... Why does he "suffer" higher amounts of horniness while hes feeling down?